View Full Version : Caves Trip - 13/14 March 2010
A possible Cave to Cave Weekend Trip has been talked about over the past six months. By Cave to Cave I mean Jenolan to Wombeyan (or the reverse) with an overnight in Yerranderie or one of the other established camp grounds in the Blue Mtns National Park. I think a few of us are keen to do this trip, but we would need to find someone to lead it who preferably has done this route before. I am not pitching this as a 4wd challenge kind of trip but more a weekend touring expedition with bush camping.
Hi Glen
I am interested but need dates about 6 weeks in advance to arrange with the roster clark.
Cheers
Mani
Hi Glen,
I'm interested - but I think that you knew that! I'm pretty good with a map and happy to go and buy them, as long as we get some advice as to which tracks we can and can't use (ie any closed tracks). I'm sure that we will be able to get through even if we don't have a 'leader' that has done the trip before.
Dave
PureCaboose
10-11-09, 12:57 PM
This is a trip that the Suzuki Club has done a number of times, perhaps we could approach them.
Greg
JK_Dolf
10-11-09, 01:30 PM
I'd certainly be keen!
If it's of any help I have topos of the area and happy to lend a hand in route planning, though not putting my hand up for leader! :-[
I've done a bit out touring around Wombeyan caves, there are some fantastic tracks (hardly challenging, but very scenic and an awesome drive!). Wombeyan Caves down to the Wollondilly River is a good drive, and the trip up the other side is a little interesting at times! ;D
Don't know much about the Janolan area though...
tonysrich
10-11-09, 01:48 PM
I'd like to do this trip with the family so I’d be happy to keep it low key. I'll be doing a large portion of this trip with the Land Cruiser Club on the 21st of this month and I've also got a set of comprehensive route directions with GPS way points from Boiling Billy so I'd be happy to lead the trip.
One thing to bear in mind though is it would be a very early start for most people. We’d have to meet at Jenolan early to make the 169k’s to Yerranderie and still have enough time to stop and site see, have lunch and get to Yerranderie with enough time left to make camp before dark.
And it will be another early start on the Sunday to do the 86k’s to Wombeyan, site see, have lunch before doing the 76k’s of dirt road to Mittagong and then 113k’s more on sealed roads back to Sydney.
I reckon that to include Yerranderie makes it a long weekend trip. There is a good camping area with toilets at Mt Werong that would cut out Yerranderie and leave us enough time to see the caves at each end of the trip or stop at other interesting sites. It would still mean two early starts but it would make the trip much more manageable.
Another thing to consider is that there are some water crossings and steep grades that will make towing a camper trailer difficult if you’re inexperienced in towing one off road.
Wet weather will also make the tracks much more difficult and the water crossings deeper. When I do the trip with the TLLC I’ll have a good look at water crossings and the steep sections and let you know if they represent a serious problem.
Let me know what you think, Tony
Tony thanks for the offer to do a recon, I think that would be very useful for trip planning. I agree that it is a good family type trip and maybe we can get Hoppy and his family along as well in their 'new' Grand. As far as the length (and time) is concerned, I for one could leave on a Friday (as some do going out to the property at Bylong). Its certainly something to kick around.
Let us know how the Toyota trip goes.
Hmm, not sure if I could get away on Friday. After work traffic on Friday is not a lot of fun, especially West. Might it be possible to meet at Mittagong or even Wombeyan on Friday evening? No camping at Jenolan, but there is at Wombeyan.
Dave
Just remember that limeburners is still closed the ass was tring to arang keyed access through it ,check on the association web site for access and restrictions.
only a few weeks ago heidi and i stayed in yeranderi it is a long way in and out of it.
a alternate camp could be dingo dell.
Hope this helps Floody
I did the trip in an afternoon last month in heavy rain on all terrain tyres coz I didn't fancy driving back up the highway in the long weekend traffic.
- The track is in good condition, not a problem for trailers at any point
- The sole significant water crossing is only around 40cm deep, care is needed on the southern side as there is a rock that is not obvious, depth does not vary much with rain as there is a makeshift weir in place
- Banshee Fire Trail is permanently closed
- Limeburners is closed
- Dingo Dell camping areas are now gated and require a key
My suggestion would be to do the trip south->north and use the Wombeyan camping area or Wollondilly River Station as the initial meet up point
There are two camping area's at Dingo Dell one is private and requires the key to access and fees apply.
the other is now fairly small now and looks like a picnic area
Limeburners is available by key from association limit 10 cars per weekend.
we would be interested in doing this trip depending on the date
tonysrich
12-11-09, 04:38 PM
How difficult a trail is "Limeburners"?
tonysrich
12-11-09, 04:43 PM
The Boiling Billy 4WD guide book I have rates this trip as moderate but the Land Cruiser Club rate it as easy. They even do the trip as a night run so the difficulty of driving along these trails shouldn’t be an issue. The key to organising this trip will be deciding how much site seeing we want to do. The main attractions are;
Jenolan and/or Wombeyan Caves
Do we want to make time to go into the caves at?
Kanangra Walls
Kanangra Walls is a line of cliffs just south of Jenolan Caves that line the Kanangra Gorge. It is supposed to be best viewed at dusk in the late afternoon/evening (another reason to do the trip South to North).
The Ruby Creek Mine ruins
Yerranderie Ghost Town
If we decide to camp here we will have to include making time to explore the area.
There is also an aboriginal heritage site on the road in to Yerranderie.
tonysrich
23-11-09, 06:45 PM
We seem to have lost all enthusiasm for this trip.
Is anyone still interested in going?
Tony this is natural, given that the trip is months away. Perhaps people are also waiting to here back from your Landcruiser Club reco of this route? After the Christmas holidays we'll rev it up again.
I'll 2nd glend's comment as I'm interested too, however I have to wait to see how finances go after Christmas.
tonysrich
23-11-09, 09:13 PM
It's only just months away, just barely two months really.
We should at least try to set a date as time really gets away from you at this time of year.
I can do either day of the following weekends
2, 3rd Jan
9, 10th Jan
23, 24th Jan
30, 31st Jan
Post up your preferences and let's try to set a date by early December (two weeks). A Saturday is probably the best day since we'll have to drive home after finishing the trip which will be in the late afternoon or possibly early evening.
Either the 2nd & 3rd or the 9th & 10th are the best for me.
Tony my original post when suggesting this trip set out a February-March timeframe. In my opinion any time is January is out for two reasons: Its too Hot; and many people take off on holidays in January with their families (like me).
tonysrich
24-11-09, 09:21 AM
Sorry Glen, my missunderstanding, I thought we where trying to do it in the school holidays.
I was probably doing that subconsiously cause my wife is a teacher.
I didn't think about the heat either but after last weekend I'm not too keen to do a trip if it's too hot.
Feb March is good but can we decide wheather to do it as a day trip or a weekender?
I've had a good look at planning the trip and we wouldn't have time to stop and get out of the car to see much of anything let alone go to Yerranderie if it's run as a day trip so lets just make an executive decision and call it a weekend trip. Is that ok with you?
I've already worked out a rough driving schedule based on doing it as a weekender, camping overnight at Yerranderie and stoping at other interresting sites on the way. When I've had the chance to polish it up a bit I'll post it.
Hi All,
I'm still keen, although I will second Glens Feb or March dates, for Three reasons - holidays, heat and fire danger (many Nat Park tracks closed last weekend due to fire danger).
Tony if you have a rough trip plan would you consider bringing it next meeting for a 'chat'?
Anytime sounds good with a bit of notice to juggle.
Just looking on 4x4Earth.com.au website a couple of them just completed the run.This should be the link http://www.4x4earth.com.au/forum/new-south-wales/5050-caves-caves.html
Just thought it might help/encourage with plaining
I might be keen, keep me posted if it is in Feb/March...
There was a brief discussion between some members, before and after last night's SJC Meeting, of the Caves to Caves Trip. Thanks to Dave, who brought along his Boiling Billy book (4WD Treks Close to Sydney) and the area map. Anyone who has this book can find the proposed trip starting on page 100.
The book recommends a long weekend for this trip ( but that appears to factor in the Yerranderie ghost-town stop as well). Total trip distance is 107.8kms (with a distance of 271kms between the available fuel stops at Taralga and Mt Victoria).
I suggest that interested members attend the February Club meeting where we hope to finalise the dates and route (subject to track availability).
Sorry to Brian and Heidi, who I didn't get a chance to talk to last night about the trip.
Glen
We have done Caves to Caves in one day.
Last time was an overnighter at Yerranderie for a 40th in August met at Blaxland Maccas at 8am, Lunch at the Walls and a walk out to the cliffs then headed in to Yerranderrie - we lead the 2wds so missed out on going via Dingo Dell.
We filled up at Mt Vic and again at Goulbourne and added a 20lt jerry at Yerranderrie. The TJ was packed though and the camper had a lot of gear on the roof top as well - skiing for a week afterwards.
We are not available on the 13/14 Feb, 27/28 Feb and the 20/21 Mar
I am keen - I hear its a great trip. excellent views and fantastic country. So if you can count me in. Dave
The Cave to Cave Trip is going to be run on weekend of the 13th and 14th of March. We are fortunate that Brian and Heidi have agreed to lead this trip.
More details will be coming shortly but for now the general plan is to meet up at Hartley on the Great Western Highway early (probably 7am) on Saturday the 13th, travel to Jenolan Cave (possible morning tea stop), visit Kanangra Walls, camp overnight at Dingo Dell, and proceed to Wombeyan Caves on Sunday. Exact meeting location details will be posted in coming days.
At this time there is no limit on numbers of vehicles nominating for this trip. A number of people at the SJC meeting on the 3rd of February (tonight) have expressed a desire to do this trip. Could all wishing to attend post up below so that we can get an accurate count of vehicles and people.
Heidi and Brian have assured me that any stock Jeep should be able to handle this trip, and that it is mainly C grade (but there maybe 'options').
People contemplating taking camper trailers must be aware that the terrain requires that the trailer is equipped with a good articulated offroad hitch (Tregg, etc).
So let the list begin. Come on all you people that have been asking me about this, now is the time to get onboard.
Hi Glen,
Put me on the list! Looking forward to it!!
Dave Grime
Meeting Place - Court House – Old Hartley
Meeting Time – 7am
Suitable for all jeeps – great trip for new members. C grade. The trip traverses Private Property, National Park, Wilderness, and Catchment areas and so is a very sensitive area. It is important that we do not deviate from the trail to ensure the area remains open to the public.
Have a full tank a fuel – no fuel available on the trip. May need an extra jerry of fuel to complete the trip depending on your fuel range.
You will need to bring food and drinks – no shops
Basic facilities available at the camp site (long drop)
Bring firewood
Camping gear – keep it simple it is only one night.
Towing – if you are towing the camper must be an off road version and have good approach and departure angles and an articulated hitch (ie tregg). The river crossing can be a bit steep. There are also some steep hills in and out of Dingo Dell area.
We are camping in the National Park so no pets.
Saturday morning we will head to Kanangra Walls for a short walk out to the lookout.
From there we will make our way down to Dingo Dell area which will be our overnight stop for the night.
There will be plenty of time to set up camp and relax with some drinks and nibbles' before your dinner.
Sunday will see us pack up camp and head off again this time out via the Kowmung Fire Trail.
We will stop and view some of the sights along the way, eventually ending up at Mittagong where we can re-fuel and head home.
Heidi you didnt put date is it still Sat 13th March put my name down if still is and i think we get to dingo dell via kowmung f/t and go out to mittagong via the boucher f/t the banchee is the closed one ray
Ray, the dates were confirmed on the page before:
The Cave to Cave Trip is going to be run on weekend of the 13th and 14th of March. I will fix up the original post so that the dates are in the title line.
Was talking to Eddy on Sunday. He is not on the internet yet - but IS interested in coming on this Trip.
Thought I had better add his name, just in case we need a list of attendees - although at the moment it looks like there isn't a lot of interest. Please post!!!
Dave
At this point it looks like the list is:
Brian and Heidi,
Ray,
Eddy,
Dave
Glen
with the weather we've had it seems we'll need to think about bringing gumboots, waders or wetsuits depending on what happens in the next few weeks.
We still have a month, hopefully it will dry out a bit.
If there are river crossings, is there a date when depending on conditions that we go / no go? I will defer to the experts, I don't know how fast the rivers up there rise and fall.
I still have my old wetsuit, mask and snorkel if needed.
Dave
If the Komung river is to deep we can go the long way round. They fall pretty quickly round there.
Just bumping this back up now that we're back in action.
With all the other trips being talked about I think I need to remind people about the Cave to Cave Trip set for the 13 & 14th of March (that's coming up on just two weeks away now).
A fair number of people expressed interest at club meetings from the end of last year, and in the earlier pages of this thread.
At present we have the following members confrmed:
Brian and Heidi, Trip Leaders
Ray,
Eddy,
Dave
Glen
So come on all those that were hanging out for this trip.
Updated List.
Phil Read rang me add is name to the list (maybe Sandra as well).
So the trip list at present is:
Brian and Heidi, Trip Leaders
Ray,
Eddy,
Dave
Glen
Phil & Sandra
Updated List.
James M rang me today to add is name to the list.
So the trip list at present is:
Brian and Heidi, Trip Leaders
Ray,
Eddy,
Dave
Glen
Phil & Sandra
James
Just a reminder that it is only a little over a week till this wonderful trip from Jenolan Caves to Wombeyan Caves through some greatl country (includes camping on Saturday night at Dingo Dell). Yeah, I'm a crappy saleman but this is a great opportunity to get away for the weekend in your Jeep and not have to worry about breaking anything (probably).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Kanangra_Walls_2002.jpg
http://www.rarebreed4wdclub.net/images/Image00017.jpg
Maggie has advised me that Alexandro has indicated he wants to go on this trip. Alexandra is havng trouble logging onto the website apparently. Alex if your reading this ring me - I think you still have my number, or PM me.
Maggie has advised me that Alexandro has indicated he wants to go on this trip. Alexandra is havng trouble logging onto the website apparently. Alex if your reading this ring me - I think you still have my number, or PM me.
Glen, if he can't sign on,he won't be able to read this or PM you ... I gave him your email addy, did he contact you?
Maggie he has not emailed me but he does have my phone number. I have found that these threads can be read if not logged in, only the members area seems to be out of bounds - and of course the ability to post.
Steve F
04-03-10, 11:42 PM
Maggie he has not emailed me but he does have my phone number. I have found that these threads can be read if not logged in, only the members area seems to be out of bounds - and of course the ability to post.
Off topic a bit but yes, anyone can read these threads, registered users and paid members can reply and there are of course the members only sections that cant be seen if you are not a paid member of SJC, so basically three different levels, read only, read and reply and Club Members acces. As an aside Alexandro's login was fixed a couple of days ago so I'm guessing he should be along soon.
Cheers
Steve
After driving up and down the mountains the past two weekends we have changed the meeting time:
6:30am departure at Blaxland MacDonalds - please make your purchases etc before then so that we can leave on time
7:30 for 8am - departure from the old courthouse at Hartley.
We typically fill up at the caltex at Mt Vic which also has fire wood available for purchase. It was pretty chilly overnight at Hillend last weekend.
We will be coming home via Mittagong.
Trip list
Brian and Heidi, Trip Leaders
Ray,
Eddy,
Dave
Glen
Phil & Sandra
James
Adrian - vistor
Hunty
Hi Heidi,
All sounds good - although I will be heading for Goulburn and Tumut after the trip. Looking forward to it!
Dave
Not wanting to rain on any parades, I was talking to a friend of mine this afternoon who runs Tag Alongs through the Blue Mtns and lives at Wenty Falls. I mentioned that we were doing caves trip and he said that the Kowmung River is running pretty full. If we have significant rain this week we could have a problem.
Anyway, I'm keeping fingers crossed and will be at Hartley for 7.30 - or maybe Blaxland Maccas for Breakfast at 6.00.
Dave
Dave, here is a quote from Heidi on that very topic:
From post #37 on this thread:
"If the Komung river is to deep we can go the long way round. They fall pretty quickly round there. "
The forecast for this coming week looks pretty good for the level falling. We shall see. I don't think we need to freak anyone out as there is another way.
Cave Trippers,
I have checked with the BOM website for the Kowmung River levels. Here is
the link to the plot from last Thursday to today:
http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDN60233/IDN60233.563039.plt.shtml
You can see that the level has remained fairly constant throughout this
period (at about 500mm at Cedar Ford). I'm not sure where Cedar Ford is,
maybe Brian or Heidi knows. I believe that there is a causeway of sorts at
the Kowmung River crossing. I doubt Cedar Ford is where we would cross. The
purpose of this is to demonstrate that the Kowmung is not a raging torrent.
BTW 500mm is just below my knees, thus I forsee no problems.
I will watch the plot data over the coming days.
Glen
Unfortunatly due to medical reasons i wont be able to make this trip ray
Ray thats not good hope you are on the mend soon!
Heidi and Brian
Unfortunatly due to medical reasons i wont be able to make this trip ray
Hope you are on the mend soon Ray,
Maggie
I think that Cedar Ford is further down the river where it merges with a few more creeks etc.
Brian will walk the river first and we will turn around and go the easy way round if we need to.
It it looks like rain, or is raining will not stay at Dingo Dell area we will head up the hill to Mt Werwong instead for the overnight camp.
If people are concerned about water intake bring a tarp and we can put a blind in front of their car.
We know some subies went through Abercombie on the weekend with no problems on the river crossings there, similar rain fall
It will be a great weekend and looking forward to it.
Don't forget your tent!
The Kowmung River crossing is just upstream of a crude weir, so you need really, really torrential rain to make any difference at all to the depth of the crossing.
It really shouldn't be an issue for any of the vehicles on the trip.
Excellent (imagine a creepy Monty Burns voice),
I hope I wasn't scare mongering earlier. Just passing info. I am really looking forward to the trip and will bring my Michelles Sacks "car bra" for anyone that wants to borrow it!
Dave
Heidi, TK421 (Xandro) will be joining us on the Caves Trip on Saturday. He rang me tonight. His family is coming along and they are staying overnight in Mt Victoria so they will meet us up there (probably at the Caltex).
Heidi, I spoke to James (Macmang) this morning and he has confirmed that they will still be coming along on Saturday.
For those heading up to Blaxland McDonalds meet point, you can reach us on the UHF club channel 15. Some have my mobile # as well and can use that if necessary.
Zandro and his group will meet us at Mt Victoria (as per previous post).
Anyone plannng on grabbing some breakfast (or coffee) at McDonalds should try to get there abit early (around 6am). Departure is still 6:30am - Right Heidi/Brian??
Trip List Update (C indicates recently confirmed)
Brian and Heidi, Trip Leaders (C)
Eddy, (C)
Dave, (C)
Glen, (C)
Phil , (C)
James , (C)
Hunty
Xandro, (C)
Adrian - vistor
Hello
Departure on Saturday morning is still 6:30 for those wishing to meet at Mac Donalds at Blaxland.
Otherwise 7:30 for 8am departure from the Courthouse at Old Hartley.
The Caltex at Mt Victoria is the last service station to top up the tanks, we will be stopping there to fill up.
Heidi and Brian
We have just arrived home from this WONDERFUL TRIP. Boy Oh! boy. Again, I got a puncture (the recovery team Eddy and Josh with their full workshop in the back of their rig) and Brian (trip leader) fixed it, but leads me to think it's time to get new tyres for my rig.
With regards to the trip, THANK YOU TO GLEN FOR SUGGESTING IT, AND A GIANT THANK YOU TO BRIAN AND HEIDI - you guys are just too good.
I recommmmmmmend Brian and Heidi to anyone who is planning any trips anywhere - they are truly professional, fantastic tour guides. Full of knowledge, advice and never got tired of me asking high range or low range.
Everything was 100% spot on. Myself, Michelle, and Damo and Nathan (my boys) had an awesome weekend - from the way it was arranged, the group talks, their expert opinion on everything, friendship and kindness - thank you. And to all the others - Eddie, Josh for their unfailing car advice and rescue ability to everything (you should see their gear!) and everyone else, like Phil who has been driving 4WDs for 20 years, Glen for his perfect avant garde guidance, and Dave for his expertise and humour. James and Lucy (surviving her first ever camping trip) and hoping to convert Adrain and Karina to join this great club.
Xandro and Michelle.
Yes indeed a great trip and a big thanks to Brian and Heidi for leading this one. A bit of everything on this trip, including rain. SJC good samaritans were 'Johnny on the Spot' to recover a rolled vehicle near our campsite. Looking forward to the Mt Werong water crossing pics Brian.
River crossing was amazing - I just figured out why I went through so fast - I have slicks - remember? With the tyres I had - I somehow had to traverse the 2 foot river crossing at speeds faster than everyone else, didn't I? Hmmmmm I know better for next time, a little slower so I don't create such big bow waters - I was lucky not to have water in my air inlet considering the water went over my hood!
Thanks everyone - I would never have crossed such deep waters without your guidance!
Xandro.
I have posted some of my photos from the trip below. Looking forward to Brians water crossing pictorials.
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj454/glend1450/DSCN0592.jpg
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj454/glend1450/DSCN0596.jpg
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj454/glend1450/DSCN0597.jpg
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj454/glend1450/DSCN0598.jpg
As we seem to be limited to four photos per post I will add the others in the next post.
Here are a couple of more photos.
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj454/glend1450/DSCN0599.jpg
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj454/glend1450/DSCN0600.jpg
Thanks to those that came along you are what made it such a great trip. I think the moving on to the Hut was a great choice for overnight camp especially when the rain started! Will upload some photo's tonight.
sbadman
15-03-10, 05:46 PM
Some great photos there Glen!
However I hate to be the broken record, but could someone please write a trip report to go along with them for the April newsletter? It makes my job so much easier when I actually get submissions from club members!
Cpage66
15-03-10, 05:47 PM
Looks like it was a good trip!
Scott I believe that Xandro's eldest son is writing the Trip Report, Brian can you confirm that?
Scott I believe that Xandro's eldest son is writing the Trip Report, Brian can you confirm that?
That is correct i saw him taking notes saturday, Scott heidi has a few photos as well, i will get her to send you a some of the good hi res copys .
Floody
I will do that tonight...I had planned to do it last night but we ended up having a trip planning session for our Cape York trip
My first chance to say THANKYOU to all involved on the trip. It was a really good weekend, and a great short trek to do! Thankyou again to Brian and Heidi for leading. You do need to know where you are going down there, easy to get it wrong. Great driving, great scenery, recovery practice, great camp site and a great bunch around the indoor campfire!
I got a message from Glen after I arrived in Tumut, saying that the Wombeyan to Mittagong road was a bit hairy. I sent a message back about my trip down to Taralga after I left the group. Three fallen trees! Fortunately I was able to bush bash around all three.
Then Bear called me last night after I got back to Sydney, so I was able to chat to him re all our adventures.
Thanks to Glen for the pictures, I have a few, but I think his are better!
Dave.
some more pix...
131130129128
four more, including the roll rescue...
135134133132
some photos from the trip. I have emailed Scott as well.
Brian, are the other photos available?
i will load them onto a cd,s and bring them to the meeting.
Floody
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