View Full Version : Any chance of a "basics for group trips " type thread?
Nixolus
24-11-14, 01:02 PM
Hi all.
As a person seeking advice and new to off-road, I have noticed something about the forum which may not be apparent to others.
The first question one has, if one hasn't really off-roaded before, when buying a new vehicle, particularly a stock vehicle is; What do I need to do now to get out on a trail?
I know that to join a trip I need certain things to be able to attend, but I don't have a good handle on what those things are, or actually mean.
here are some examples.
UHF radio - yes I know what this is, but a "kit yourself out" thread could suggest a good entry model, or let us know what are the commonly used models of radios. I like to get good gear, but reading about some of these radios, it seems they aren't plug and play , and require quite a bit of fooling around to get them working right.
Recovery points front and rear - These are always listed, I know what they are, but the frequency of their mention makes me question if I have it right. My Jeep Wrangler has a loop under the front, and rear bumper, that I think are recovery points. (cant check the manual right now as wife is out with Jeep) Is that sufficient, or do i need something aftermarket? Do people take cars off-road that don't come with recovery points? Is that why they are specified?
Snatch Straps - Yes, I know this one too, but some newbies might not. It is a particular thing after all.
Rated Shackles - Rated to what? I have a pair of shackles that I bought from Mitchell Bros on the eve of my fateful trip to Fraser Island. I suppose they are rated, can I check in some way? Its probably stamped on them isn't it?
There are other things off course, live axles, difflockers, unlockers - When I see this I just put it in the hardcore basket and move on, I think these things aren't so important for newbies, and when we get more experience we will naturally start learning about them.
So what I'd like to request is that you create a sort of welcome pack thread that details what people need to do in lay-mans terms to start coming out with a group. With some definitions and specific examples of the basic requirements, and throw in the grading criteria as well, C grade, B grade etc.
This stuff is probably all in the forum in places, but I cant see a one stop thread that puts it all down in easy to understand and clear terms.
Feel free to let me know if I'm talking out of my hat.
Attend a 4wd training company for a day out..you'll learn lots
- - Sent from my Jeep
Nixolus
24-11-14, 02:43 PM
Yes, that's a good idea, and that could be in the thread also, Does SJC have a recommendation, or affiliation with a 4x4 training company?
Every car is different so the manual is a good place to start to get to know your jeep
attending a meeting and asking some one to go over the car with you is another good idea
the club will be offering driver awareness training sessions over the next year so keep an eye at for them this will be to the accredited level and you can choose to do the formal accreditation via the 4wd association for a fraction on the cost of a commercial company
http://4wdtouringaustralia.com.au/blogs/trackside-mechanic/14324545-rated-recovery-points
http://4wdtouringaustralia.com.au/blogs/trackside-mechanic/14325309-tyre-pressures
Something like this?
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LOL
Guys, I think my first post asked for training recommendations and I got "join us on the trail!". Nix, I don't doubt the trail is a fantastic answer, I've done 4 trips with these blokes and honest, can't explain where I started and where I am now. Should I do a course? Hell yes! But I know a lot more now about what I want from it.
Mate, there is training coming up for the Jamboree. Are you joining us next weekend? Gentle start that I would have given my eye tooth for when I was kicking off.
some of your queries I don't think need any more detail from the club for the newbie (I am one):
a) UHF, convoy doesn't work without it. Hand held is fine. Honest though, a new 4wd-er should be able to work it out
b) recovery points, oops. Something I failed. Didn't get ostracised though! We'll find a way to dig you out.
C) snatch straps. Hmm, in reality I think this is about... If you need rescue, use your own snatch not someone-else's! Surely any 4wd shop will steer you through this.
d) rated shackles, again, any 4wd shop.
oK, live axles, lockers, (I think your 'unlockers' is) sway bar disconnects... Next step. This step does not stop.
so for me... First, buy a recovery kit from a 4wd shop. Easy. Second, courses? Yes good, but hit the trails with us first and just talk. Last, OK, the "stuff". It doesn't end. One way trip to spend money. :-)
Dieselcon
24-11-14, 11:24 PM
Well said dru..
Nix, I have a handheld UHF unit to lend you this weekend. Join us.. We will look after you and your jeep.
Paul-JK
25-11-14, 08:59 AM
Yes, that's a good idea, and that could be in the thread also, Does SJC have a recommendation, or affiliation with a 4x4 training company?
Depending on your experience I think a 4WD training course is a great idea.
Don't get me wrong, getting out with the club is a fantastic way of increasing your experience and confidence.
You can see basically the same vehicle you are driving make it through an obstacle and have the confidence that you can therefore give it a go.
You can also learn from people who have years of experience driving similar vehicles on the tracks that you are driving.
Having this sort of a group environment is by far the best way of increasing your confidence level and gaining experience, once you have the confidence to give it a go in the first place and once you know you have the basic level of skill needed to give it a go safely. It is this last bit where I think the 4WD training courses a really worthwhile.
Going out with an experienced group as a complete novice can be very daunting, and can in some cases push you to try things that are beyond your skill level, just because you've seen everyone else do it. That doesn't always end well.
For me, for an absolute beginner (as I was) with no 4WD'ing experience at all, I think an official 4WD'ing course is the way to go before you go out with clubs.
I did one and this then gave me the confidence to be able to get out 4WD'ing more, be it by myself, with friends, or with a group like the SJC.
I think it's worth it so that you know your getting a good basic grounding in all aspects of 4WD'ing, rather than just the few bits you might have encountered on one specific trip.
You know you're going to learn the basics in a safe environment where you're not going to get yourself into any trouble.
It doesn't teach you everything but it does give you something to relate to in most circumstances. You can then build on this basic level of knowledge during the club trips.
If you have a basic level of knowledge and experience then club trips are great but I think all novices should be actively encouraged to go on an official training course.
Ultimately it's safer for them and for the club.
Just my 10c worth, and for the record I used Great Divide Tours for my training.
I thought it was a good training weekend and a good introduction to all basic aspects of 4WD'ing, as well as a fun weekend.
Depending on your experience I think a 4WD training course is a great idea.
Don't get me wrong, getting out with the club is a fantastic way of increasing your experience and confidence.
You can see basically the same vehicle you are driving make it through an obstacle and have the confidence that you can therefore give it a go.
You can also learn from people who have years of experience driving similar vehicles on the tracks that you are driving.
Having this sort of a group environment is by far the best way of increasing your confidence level and gaining experience, once you have the confidence to give it a go in the first place and once you know you have the basic level of skill needed to give it a go safely. It is this last bit where I think the 4WD training courses a really worthwhile.
Going out with an experienced group as a complete novice can be very daunting, and can in some cases push you to try things that are beyond your skill level, just because you've seen everyone else do it. That doesn't always end well.
For me, for an absolute beginner (as I was) with no 4WD'ing experience at all, I think an official 4WD'ing course is the way to go before you go out with clubs.
I did one and this then gave me the confidence to be able to get out 4WD'ing more, be it by myself, with friends, or with a group like the SJC.
I think it's worth it so that you know your getting a good basic grounding in all aspects of 4WD'ing, rather than just the few bits you might have encountered on one specific trip.
You know you're going to learn the basics in a safe environment where you're not going to get yourself into any trouble.
It doesn't teach you everything but it does give you something to relate to in most circumstances. You can then build on this basic level of knowledge during the club trips.
If you have a basic level of knowledge and experience then club trips are great but I think all novices should be actively encouraged to go on an official training course.
Ultimately it's safer for them and for the club.
Just my 10c worth, and for the record I used Great Divide Tours for my training.
I thought it was a good training weekend and a good introduction to all basic aspects of 4WD'ing, as well as a fun weekend.
Well said!....:smile-new:...... Did the same before I came to the club for my own peace of mind and hoping not to seem to be like a complete knob on my first run out with the club, but still felt like one anyway....:highly_amused:......... Went through a Misty Mountains Tours training day at the Zig-Zag with Ken & Olga Rumble, in a quarry there which was/is closed for use normally..... Confidence & skill will come sooner then you think but you have to get out and "get dirty" to get there....:single_eye:..:smile-new:..... That's when the club runs really benefit a novice with like minded Jeep freaks more than ready to give a guiding hand along the way....:single_eye:....:smile-new:....... Use to say that your Jeep and my Jeep were better drivers than either of us, we just have to learn to catch up with it's abilities...:hypnotysed:......:smile-new:..........
M8 come for a trip with us.... And we will guide you through anything u r not comfortabke with..... I started the same way.... We will not leave you to do any obstacle you r not comfortable with on your own..... JKs have reasonable recovery points fron and rear.... U can start with a $50 1watt hand held UHF from any shop and it will always be useful even after u get a hard mounted 5w in your car...... Rated shackles 3.2 tonnes will do from any 4wd shop..... Snatch strap 8 tonne will be ok..... Do the C grade trips to get used to your Jeep and then see what kind of mods u need to do to tackle the kind of tracks u want to drive.....
Happy Jeeping and welcome to the family.....
rupicon
25-11-14, 12:10 PM
What mani aka trbn8r said
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Nixolus
25-11-14, 12:20 PM
Ok so this thread itself is shaping up to be a great comfort to new initiates I'm sure.
In terms of trail readiness - hardware, here's what I have so far, all bought for and used on my fateful trip to Fraser Island in the Asia Rocsta.
Tow Rope - MBS 2,850 Kg
Snatch Strap - MBS 8,100 Kg
Shackles, 2 of - WLL 43/4T S 3/4
Tyre pressure gauge
e-Z Tyre Deflater
Oricom PMR888 handheld UHF radio (I haven't used these in a long time so I'll throw one on the charger and see if they still work).
Quick list of other things.............. 1- Tyre inflater/pump for when you need to air up again, repair a puncture, re-bead a tyre etc...2- A tyre puncture repair kit including spare wheel valves, dust caps etc for when you do need it and you mostly will at sometime off road............ 3- A reasonable tool kit always is a benefit to have for yourself and others at times...... 4- A good First aide kit, never know when you need one.......... 4- Spare batteries for your hand held if you not have a hard wired radio in the Jeep, no good being in the dark off road, is there anyone out there! (sounds like a Jeep add... lol)............. 5- VERY importantly, a very understanding other half/partner for when the Jeep bug list starts to mount up............... 6- Repeat No.5 again until you get it right................... 7- Cable ties, can keep a lot of things safely out of harms way or secure the hands of your passenger to the "Oh Shyte" hand grip/bar if required......... 8- Some type of hand cleaner after some work or play during/after a day/night out on the trails........... 9- A torch for darker times or a better look at things, also very useful in the first aide area eg, find/get out glass splinters, sand in minor cuts etc if further action not necessary etc ( to the Hospital worst case)................ 10- Repeat No.5 again until you get it right...................... 11- A good attitude, as we are all out there to have FUN...... 12- Food/drink of choice, with some water to help clear/clean head lights, blinkers, number plates etc as we do not want to give Mr. Plod. any extra reason to smile by having those functions covered in mud (also make sure you have your windscreen washer bottle pretty full as you may get a shocked/surprised added cost if empty)............... These are really in no specific order really, but you definitely you need to get No.5 right unless you are single or headed for divorce.............
Bound to be many a little thing or two, other suggestions/ideas to add to the list........
P.S. - Repeat No.5 again, until you get it right................
Add to the list - Some change of clothes for when you get really, really dirty ( especially underwear, you will NOT want to learn the hard way!)...:hororr:......:smile-new:.... A roll of toilet paper, which may help to partly explain the previous item, but speaks for itself and is a heck of a lot softer to boot....:single_eye:........ A couple of plastic fantastic bags to put your cruddy boots/clothes into and/or to take your rubbish back out with you instead of leaving it in the bush..:grumpy:......:smile-new:.... A small shovel/spade to dig yourself out of trouble or to dig a hole to get into, think about it..:smile-new:.........
Sunscreen, insect repellent..............
Add to list:
1. Burrito warmer ;)
Nixolus
25-11-14, 04:01 PM
Hi Steve,
I have most of those things as well,
small but bright LED torch, basic first aid kit I have, I usually carry spare clothes if I'm out for a a trip, just because of the vagaries of Aussie weather. I always carry plastic bags for rubbish, but still use the cupholders for rubbish quite a lot. , I can easily add cables ties spare batteries clothes food and water no problem. I have a generally very supportive wife so no need to repeat Step 5.
Tyre inflation device, I do have a little air pump that's supposed to run off cigarette lighter, I don't know if its enough to inflate my tyre, but it's busted, so it needs repair.
I will need to see how a tyre can be repaired outside a tyre shop. Presumably you need some brutish tyre levers?
Hi AV8, Isn't a burrito warmer a bit of corrugated iron that's been left in the sun?
small but bright LED torch,
Need a few. One on you, one on pax, headtorch, magnetic type for night repairs, under dash etc, cargo area. Plenty on eBay, Supercheap, Autobarn, Bunnings
basic first aid kit I have,
Be first aid qualified, know how to use them things, tweezers for ticks
Tyre inflation device, I do have a little air pump that's supposed to run off cigarette lighter, I don't know if its enough to inflate my tyre, but it's busted, so it needs repairs
No repairs. Chuck that small one for later home project to inflate push bike tyres, footballs, etc. Get something like what Steve F got for his JK. I bought a fantastic one from Aldi for $99 but have since upgraded to ARB.
I will need to see how a tyre can be repaired outside a tyre shop. Presumably you need some brutish tyre levers?
plenty of videos on youtube and talk to 4WD shop people. Go to 4WD shows, attend talks.. For now, carry that spare tyre is enough. Need a jack though.... but which one? Bottle Jack? Hi Lift? Air Bag Jack? Hi Lift doesn't. Neither does Bottle Jack. So I use the Air Bag Jack to lift the Jeep up.
Hi AV8, Isn't a burrito warmer a bit of corrugated iron that's been left in the sun?
Any heat source will do, sun, charcoal,gas,electric,engine bay..... even love ;) lol
Burrito Lunch Box
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k610/joyschtik/cb279ab5e74dc422ad47af36db66eb77.jpg
I bought this lunch box food warmer on eBay, $28 or something like that. It heats up food in about 3-5 minutes. Perfect, don't have to get the gas cooker, pans etc out.
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k610/joyschtik/ec54cf98fa894264b1e8dec3a50e6bfa.jpg
Mate, you can't worry too much. You just gotta get out there and just do it as many have said. Classroom ain't the same as the real stuff. Most of the real stuff are actually easier.. :)
Nixolus
25-11-14, 06:24 PM
I'm not too worried, I'm just dong my research because Im quite keen, but I haven't gotten out there yet becaus I've had a pregnant wife and a little one. Now my wife isn't pregnant but I seem to have two little ones. So my weekends are pretty full.
Hi Steve,
I have most of those things as well,
small but bright LED torch, basic first aid kit I have, I usually carry spare clothes if I'm out for a a trip, just because of the vagaries of Aussie weather. I always carry plastic bags for rubbish, but still use the cupholders for rubbish quite a lot. , I can easily add cables ties spare batteries clothes food and water no problem. I have a generally very supportive wife so no need to repeat Step 5.
Tyre inflation device, I do have a little air pump that's supposed to run off cigarette lighter, I don't know if its enough to inflate my tyre, but it's busted, so it needs repair.
I will need to see how a tyre can be repaired outside a tyre shop. Presumably you need some brutish tyre levers?
Hi AV8, Isn't a burrito warmer a bit of corrugated iron that's been left in the sun?
I learn't that you will never get No.5 right.... Remember to repeat No.5 again until you get it right....
Ditch the little air pump, will burn out again and again......... A decent air pump will serve you well.................
You plug the punctured tyre the same way as they do in a tyre shop, with the sealing plugs/thingies.... Works very well from experience............. You do not need the tyre levers to plug a small puncture hole but you will need that reliable air pump to air up the flat tyre again.......... Do not wait, you learn the hard way when you blow out more than 1 tyre at the same time............. Does happen more often than you may think.......... One spare tyre, 2 tyres blown, miles from nowhere............$50.00 for a good repair kit is good value/insurance.......... Definitely a must for the kit build up and peace of mind...........
dobbo56
25-11-14, 07:50 PM
Aldi sell a good 12 volt compressor, basically the same as a Thumper but I got mine for $99.00, look out for them on special, a couple of the guys on here have them and are happy with them, just take small steps, it dosnt need to all happen at once. been there done that, Doggy..
Steve F
25-11-14, 08:27 PM
......So what I'd like to request is that you create a sort of welcome pack thread that details what people need to do in lay-mans terms to start coming out with a group. With some definitions and specific examples of the basic requirements, and throw in the grading criteria as well, C grade, B grade etc.
This stuff is probably all in the forum in places, but I cant see a one stop thread that puts it all down in easy to understand and clear terms.
Feel free to let me know if I'm talking out of my hat.....
You're in luck, check the stickies in the Club Matters section (at the top of the forum), you will see a Membership Welcome Pack to download (a word document), I've just updated it with the current committee details but the rest is as it has been for a long time, it may be due for a refresh but it covers a bit about SJC including trip gradings and what's required to come out on a trip :)
Cheers
Steve
Steve,
New members have this mailed to them, together with the Convoy Procedures and Trip Leader notes, which are also in the stickies.
Greg
Steve F
25-11-14, 09:00 PM
Thought so :)
I learn't that you will never get No.5 right.... Remember to repeat No.5 again until you get it right....
.
Either way you will be Jeep broke. lol
Repeating No.5 again and again is a scary preposition however. :D
Can understand about having little ones, most of us have been there too. I had to wait till mine left school before having some extra dosh to do the more serious stuff. It's good that you're doing it now. The fam will enjoy growing Jeeping, camping and stuff.
Club quote "Finally … just get out there and have fun,
that’s what being in a club is all about "
Nixolus
26-11-14, 10:25 PM
Those tyre repair kits are awesome, I had no idea that existed. I'm getting one for sure
Steven.Boyd
04-12-14, 11:51 PM
I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet. I would recommend at least one small fire extinguisher to be in the jeep to.
Nixolus
05-12-14, 01:34 AM
Yep, That's a good standard thing, I have one that I kept in the Rocsta, because I always thought it would do something like catch on fire. I'm not sure where it is now though, the Garage perhaps?
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