View Full Version : Eoi: Chain gang!
As advertised at the February Club meet, we are looking at a trip theme for members who have taken the next step, got the lift, bigger tyres, and now want to build experience.
The intention is a series of trips that keep gently nudging comfort levels with increasing challenge in order to build ability. You don't have to commit to everything. Just take it as far as you want. The start point would be C+ with B challenge. But go through all the way, if still keen, to A grade. Because we can. Vehicle requirements clearly keep getting more advanced with the grades. There is definitely a risk of damage on these sorts of trails, especially if vehicles aren't sufficiently prepared. There is a saying "if you will play, you will pay." BUT, It is also easily the most rewarding stuff that you can do in a Jeep. It's what they are for. This is the stuff that Kerry and I live for. Wrangler territory.
We will keep reviewing things to see how we are going. Push harder if everyone is ready, or just a bit otherwise. To the best we can with trip selection anyway.
"Hell yes, Dru! I'm in. Where do I sign up for the CHAIN GANG?"
Well, here. Post below if interested.
Hell yes, Dru would love to join the CHAIN GANG - love to start a journey to push more. Would you have some rough guidance around vehicle requirements - I am about to get some work done to mine and would like to be prepared for the different grades. Thanks and always enjoy your trips.
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StewartV
08-02-18, 09:41 AM
Hi Dru. Sounds right up my alley. Count me in for the chain gang!
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If mainly day trips. Yes, very interested :smile-new:
SnakeDoctor
08-02-18, 01:49 PM
Definitely in.
Hi Guys - yes these trips will be day trips, They might be done in conjunction with something else and an opportunity to stay camped, but our usual mode of operation is a Saturday day trip with an early start.
jeepstar2017
08-02-18, 10:55 PM
Yes please... thank you sir may I have another? Can’t pass up ‘wheeling school’ with Dru and Kerry!!
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I would like to start doing a few more challenging trips, but I think I'll hold off a little while until I can get some rock sliders under my car. Looking forward to actually using my diff locks lol
Good response so far.
:highly_amused:
Rocket55
12-02-18, 09:08 PM
Sounds interesting and a very good idea/concept to build confidence. I'm keen for some of these. Is the plan to eventually build to Jose grade trails... :eagerness:
Sounds interesting and a very good idea/concept to build confidence. I'm keen for some of these. Is the plan to eventually build to Jose grade trails... :eagerness:
The idea is so everyone uses the opportunity to push their own comfort levels. If we are to take the "Jose Line" then at least the JK builds need to start at 3-4" lift, 35" muds and lockers. Not everyone will go that far. :excitement:
But yes, A Grade is where I want to take it, and Six Stage is on my bucket list. :encouragement:
Rocket55
13-02-18, 09:07 AM
You'll enjoy 6 Stage Dru, it's definitely next level !! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180212/dca3992fd8289ae9d30d1c6855c75f25.jpg
Dieselcon
15-02-18, 11:30 AM
Haha .. you guys crack me up.. no longer working weekends so keen to lead some trips down around Yalwal.. have A great Jeep trail grade B/C Monkey Gum , wombat flats rock garden, treeroot loop, Telegraph corner n powerlines. Those with big lifts n 37’s can try waterfall, and Dusties ... and yes those with capable trucks and experience can do 6 Stage.
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Dieselcon
15-02-18, 11:39 AM
A taste of Yalwal https://youtu.be/eBH_etDiYbg
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Dieselcon
15-02-18, 11:45 AM
Another vid https://youtu.be/nwJwuvEEoQg
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Jose - I was already planning on knocking on your door!
I was wondering about a weekend trip camping a Coolandel (we'll let you go home!) and hoping you might lead.
Dieselcon
15-02-18, 10:33 PM
Absolutely.. [emoji106]
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Absolutely.. [emoji106]
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Jose - How does the weekend starting 21.4.18 suit you? That or the week following? It's a bit of a break after Coffs, and happens to be during a Uni break - makes a weekend away much more easy for me! If you are good I'll lock you inn for trip leading and set something up in the Calander.
Dru'n'Kerry
Yep... Definitely have to have Wheeny Creek on the agenda!!!!!!............
You'll enjoy 6 Stage Dru, it's definitely next level !! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180212/dca3992fd8289ae9d30d1c6855c75f25.jpg
I'll definitely need those rock sliders sooner rather than later
Yep... Definitely have to have Wheeny Creek on the agenda!!!!!!............
Can only agree with that. :-)
Dieselcon
19-02-18, 03:12 PM
Jose - How does the weekend starting 21.4.18 suit you? That or the week following? It's a bit of a break after Coffs, and happens to be during a Uni break - makes a weekend away much more easy for me! If you are good I'll lock you inn for trip leading and set something up in the Calander.
Dru'n'Kerry
Ok sounds like a date... camping n wheeling the Yalwal way🤪
Hell yes, Dru would love to join the CHAIN GANG - love to start a journey to push more. Would you have some rough guidance around vehicle requirements - I am about to get some work done to mine and would like to be prepared for the different grades. Thanks and always enjoy your trips.
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Hitesh, Kerry just pulled me up for not responding to this. It's an open question. 10 Jeepers will have at least 25 different thoughts on it! In a nut shell my recommendations for JK will be:
C+/B Grade 2" lift 33" ATs
B+/A Grade 3" lift 35" muds and lockers.
Recommendations is not a requirement though. Mostly it's about how much damage you are happy to risk. Details thoughts:
1. OK let's start with protection "rock sliders!" Kerry is calling out. Yes and good ones that will take the load of the car. Not plastic things designed to help you step into the truck. WE swapped the Rubicon sliders for Uneek. Happy with them.
2. Diff covers - you want something that will take a hit - ARB etc is fine, we have AEV. While doing the diff, get some decent diff breathers installed with the suction point high somewhere in the jeep out of the way.
3. Serious recovery points front and rear - generally you do this with replacement bars. The rear is most often overcome with a tow hitch. The tow bar can be removed and the pin is excellent for rear recovery. Front recovery points depend on the bar. Our front bar is Mopar, our rear bars is AEV - I don't particularly like either.
4. Sway bar disconnects. Make sure you are happy with the ease of use - it will be you swearing at the truck hitting things with an anvil trying to pull it apart and put it back together. Start and finish of every trip.
5. Think about tyres and think about look. Most things flow from these two items. I dont think that 33" tyres will fit in the width of the standard fenders, though others have a different view. If you are to replace the fenders, in terms of look, do you like or hate flat fenders? For tyres at 33" you may be able to get away with keeping wheels and fenders. Not for 35".
6. 33" tyres will require a 2" lift. For a lift, you want to make sure that the engineering is geometry corrected. There are videos on this or it is easier to explain in a chat. Modification equipment suppliers can generally manage a 2" or 2.5" lift with pre-manufactured brackets. This makes the components and install a lot cheaper. This is a lift strategy, where for people who have got it, say it is fully legal. Perhaps, but does it look legal enough that you wont be pulled over? Probably. It is a go to solution for Wrangler in NSW. You avoid the cost of certification.
7. 35" you can't pretend. You need a full 3" lift. That is top heavy and tippy, so the track needs to get wider to compensate - new wheels with a different offset to add maybe 25mm track. You wont fit under the flares so go back to the look. Think about you front and rear bars and whether they fit the new tyres. We have problems on the rear and had to introduce bump stops which kills some of the articulation we paid for! The modification equipment is much more expensive - you can't have preset kit, everything has to be adjustable. Kit is more expensive and it needs more hours to install and adjust. I also think you should change the ratios in the diffs to allow for the 35"s. Everything gets costly. Add in certification.
8. Underbody armour? I'm not sure it's needed and it adds a hell of a lot of weight to the Jeep. that is a win some lose some scenario. We ended up going for it.
Other thoughts? For me AEV sets the benchmark. No doubt about it. In both 2" and 3" lifts. You seriously don't go to any other gear unless you are convinced what you are doing is better than AEV. And yes I think I have done better. We are an unplanned hybrid of AEV bars, with Synergy and Terraflex suspension. And I wont go back to AEV.
How does this gear rate? Depends on the driver.
2" on 33"s as discussed, fully tuned - B grade as you push it.
3" on 35" as discussed, fully tuned - almost A grade as you push (our Jeep).
But then, Steve Foster driving my 33" spec on my disrespected AEV solution, drove first attempt over the A grade pinch point on Mt Airlie. And me on my wannabe A grade, took multiple attempts, seriously tested out the rock rails, damaged fenders etc. Sometimes I have better days!
And there is much further to go - coil overs, long arms, hi lift steering, hydraulics, hydraulic bump stops and on it goes - for what I truly think is an A grade Jeep (we are not there yet!)
Enjoy!
Dru
Hitesh, Kerry just pulled me up for not responding to this. It's an open question. 10 Jeepers will have at least 25 different thoughts on it! In a nut shell my recommendations for JK will be:
C+/B Grade 2" lift 33" ATs
B+/A Grade 3" lift 35" muds and lockers.
Recommendations is not a requirement though. Mostly it's about how much damage you are happy to risk. Details thoughts:
1. OK let's start with protection "rock sliders!" Kerry is calling out. Yes and good ones that will take the load of the car. Not plastic things designed to help you step into the truck. WE swapped the Rubicon sliders for Uneek. Happy with them.
2. Diff covers - you want something that will take a hit - ARB etc is fine, we have AEV. While doing the diff, get some decent diff breathers installed with the suction point high somewhere in the jeep out of the way.
3. Serious recovery points front and rear - generally you do this with replacement bars. The rear is most often overcome with a tow hitch. The tow bar can be removed and the pin is excellent for rear recovery. Front recovery points depend on the bar. Our front bar is Mopar, our rear bars is AEV - I don't particularly like either.
4. Sway bar disconnects. Make sure you are happy with the ease of use - it will be you swearing at the truck hitting things with an anvil trying to pull it apart and put it back together. Start and finish of every trip.
5. Think about tyres and think about look. Most things flow from these two items. I dont think that 33" tyres will fit in the width of the standard fenders, though others have a different view. If you are to replace the fenders, in terms of look, do you like or hate flat fenders? For tyres at 33" you may be able to get away with keeping wheels and fenders. Not for 35".
6. 33" tyres will require a 2" lift. For a lift, you want to make sure that the engineering is geometry corrected. There are videos on this or it is easier to explain in a chat. Modification equipment suppliers can generally manage a 2" or 2.5" lift with pre-manufactured brackets. This makes the components and install a lot cheaper. This is a lift strategy, where for people who have got it, say it is fully legal. Perhaps, but does it look legal enough that you wont be pulled over? Probably. It is a go to solution for Wrangler in NSW. You avoid the cost of certification.
7. 35" you can't pretend. You need a full 3" lift. That is top heavy and tippy, so the track needs to get wider to compensate - new wheels with a different offset to add maybe 25mm track. You wont fit under the flares so go back to the look. Think about you front and rear bars and whether they fit the new tyres. We have problems on the rear and had to introduce bump stops which kills some of the articulation we paid for! The modification equipment is much more expensive - you can't have preset kit, everything has to be adjustable. I also think you should change the rations on the diffs to allow for the 35"s. Everything gets costly.
8. Underbody armour? I'm not sure it's needed and it adds a hell of a lot of weight to the Jeep. that is a win some lose some scenario. We ended up going for it.
Other thoughts? For me AEV sets the benchmark. No doubt about it. In both 2" and 3" lifts. You seriously don't go to any other gear unless you are convinced what you are doing is better than AEV. And yes I think I have done better. We are an unplanned hybrid of AEV bars, with Synergy and Terraflex suspension. And I wont go back to AEV.
How does this gear rate? Depends on the driver.
2" on 33"s as discussed, fully tuned - B grade as you push it.
3" on 35" as discussed, fully tuned - almost A grade as you push (our Jeep).
But then, Steve Foster driving my 33" spec on my disrespected AEV solution, drove first attempt over the A grade pinch point on Mt Airlie. And me on my wannabe A grade, took multiple attempts, seriously tested out the rock rails, damaged fenders etc. Sometimes I have better days!
And there is much further to go - coil overs, long arms, hi lift steering, hydraulics, hydraulic bump stops and on it goes - for what I truly think is an A grade Jeep (we are not there yet!)
Enjoy!
Dru
Awesome thanks so much for the detailed response... thanks[emoji120]
I think I have most of the bits now on the car to do the B C+ trips.
Will be joining Richie and Co on the Swing Bridge drive on the Saturday and therefore won’t be able to do the Sunday but would love to join on the next “easy” C+ chain gang trip in the future...
Hitesh
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Rocket55
19-02-18, 09:21 PM
Hitesh, Kerry just pulled me up for not responding to this. It's an open question. 10 Jeepers will have at least 25 different thoughts on it! In a nut shell my recommendations for JK will be:
C+/B Grade 2" lift 33" ATs
B+/A Grade 3" lift 35" muds and lockers.
Recommendations is not a requirement though. Mostly it's about how much damage you are happy to risk. Details thoughts:
1. OK let's start with protection "rock sliders!" Kerry is calling out. Yes and good ones that will take the load of the car. Not plastic things designed to help you step into the truck. WE swapped the Rubicon sliders for Uneek. Happy with them.
2. Diff covers - you want something that will take a hit - ARB etc is fine, we have AEV. While doing the diff, get some decent diff breathers installed with the suction point high somewhere in the jeep out of the way.
3. Serious recovery points front and rear - generally you do this with replacement bars. The rear is most often overcome with a tow hitch. The tow bar can be removed and the pin is excellent for rear recovery. Front recovery points depend on the bar. Our front bar is Mopar, our rear bars is AEV - I don't particularly like either.
4. Sway bar disconnects. Make sure you are happy with the ease of use - it will be you swearing at the truck hitting things with an anvil trying to pull it apart and put it back together. Start and finish of every trip.
5. Think about tyres and think about look. Most things flow from these two items. I dont think that 33" tyres will fit in the width of the standard fenders, though others have a different view. If you are to replace the fenders, in terms of look, do you like or hate flat fenders? For tyres at 33" you may be able to get away with keeping wheels and fenders. Not for 35".
6. 33" tyres will require a 2" lift. For a lift, you want to make sure that the engineering is geometry corrected. There are videos on this or it is easier to explain in a chat. Modification equipment suppliers can generally manage a 2" or 2.5" lift with pre-manufactured brackets. This makes the components and install a lot cheaper. This is a lift strategy, where for people who have got it, say it is fully legal. Perhaps, but does it look legal enough that you wont be pulled over? Probably. It is a go to solution for Wrangler in NSW. You avoid the cost of certification.
7. 35" you can't pretend. You need a full 3" lift. That is top heavy and tippy, so the track needs to get wider to compensate - new wheels with a different offset to add maybe 25mm track. You wont fit under the flares so go back to the look. Think about you front and rear bars and whether they fit the new tyres. We have problems on the rear and had to introduce bump stops which kills some of the articulation we paid for! The modification equipment is much more expensive - you can't have preset kit, everything has to be adjustable. Kit is more expensive and it needs more hours to install and adjust. I also think you should change the ratios in the diffs to allow for the 35"s. Everything gets costly. Add in certification.
8. Underbody armour? I'm not sure it's needed and it adds a hell of a lot of weight to the Jeep. that is a win some lose some scenario. We ended up going for it.
Other thoughts? For me AEV sets the benchmark. No doubt about it. In both 2" and 3" lifts. You seriously don't go to any other gear unless you are convinced what you are doing is better than AEV. And yes I think I have done better. We are an unplanned hybrid of AEV bars, with Synergy and Terraflex suspension. And I wont go back to AEV.
How does this gear rate? Depends on the driver.
2" on 33"s as discussed, fully tuned - B grade as you push it.
3" on 35" as discussed, fully tuned - almost A grade as you push (our Jeep).
But then, Steve Foster driving my 33" spec on my disrespected AEV solution, drove first attempt over the A grade pinch point on Mt Airlie. And me on my wannabe A grade, took multiple attempts, seriously tested out the rock rails, damaged fenders etc. Sometimes I have better days!
And there is much further to go - coil overs, long arms, hi lift steering, hydraulics, hydraulic bump stops and on it goes - for what I truly think is an A grade Jeep (we are not there yet!)
Enjoy!
Dru
Some great info there Dru, but if you want a Jeep to take on the A+ tracks you'll need to upgrade to a TJ !!! [emoji12]
Isn't that right Jose! [emoji106]
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Dieselcon
19-02-18, 11:02 PM
Some great info there Dru, but if you want a Jeep to take on the A+ tracks you'll need to upgrade to a TJ !!! [emoji12]
Isn't that right Jose! [emoji106]
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Absolutely Rod [emoji12][emoji106]
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I've been hopeless with dates recently - fixed though and as Jose says - 28 &29 April
SnakeDoctor
20-02-18, 06:18 PM
Hitesh, Kerry just pulled me up for not responding to this. It's an open question. 10 Jeepers will have at least 25 different thoughts on it! In a nut shell my recommendations for JK will be:
C+/B Grade 2" lift 33" ATs
B+/A Grade 3" lift 35" muds and lockers
<snipped solid content>
Dru
Running 315/70R17/AEV 2.5/Sway Bar Disconnects/MT Muds/Rubi Franken sliders here on a 4 door here.
Diff covers, rear locker and maybe Uneek sliders on the shopping list.
I don't mind the odd scrape / repair and happy to push it for fun / learning. I was trying to avoid the 3.5 lift because I stupidly didn't get it first up but i'll consider it depending on how far I can get with it as is.
Running 315/70R17/AEV 2.5/Sway Bar Disconnects/MT Muds/Rubi Franken sliders here on a 4 door here.
Diff covers, rear locker and maybe Uneek sliders on the shopping list.
I don't mind the odd scrape / repair and happy to push it for fun / learning. I was trying to avoid the 3.5 lift because I stupidly didn't get it first up but i'll consider it depending on how far I can get with it as is.
It's not meant to be prescriptive.
Hey, I would have loved coil overs and long arm in retrospect. You work with what you've got though. :shame:
Some great info there Dru, but if you want a Jeep to take on the A+ tracks you'll need to upgrade to a TJ !!! [emoji12]
This is worth noting. My Jeep “specs” for trail grades are somewhat JK- centric.
Nothing is ever this simple or black and white, BUT
x TJ with 2” lift and 33” tyres matches JK with 3” lift and 35” tyres.
x Grand Cherokee with 2” lift and ATs matches stock-ish JK with protection.
OK, there is a whole lot wrong with that simplification, not the least being that long wheel base is an advantage on trails as much as short wheel base is. It is one of those horrible generalisations that at least gives some food for thought.
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