a post about Watagans Track Closures.. and then a rant about the 4wd assoc

I'm not familiar with the tracks out at the Watagans, but there are some track closures planned there soon.

Here are the details:http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/parkmanagement/watagansjillibdraftpom.pdf"]Watagans National Park - draft plan of management (3.1MB)[/url]

There is an online form for public comments/consultation on the following link.

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/pa...nspomdraft.htm

All submissions must be received by 30 March 2009.

I understand the reasoning behind track closures, but my concern is that tracks are closed, but none are opened to replace them. This isn't "management", as management would involve redirecting those recreational users to other tracks in the area. This is just forcing recreational users of that area to break the law as there is no alternatives to the current offerings being provided.

This is something that has been bugging me for a while. Knowledge of the location of most of the 4wd tracks is mostly passed between 4wders, and isnt made public and easy to find. So a lot of 4wders who aren't "in the know" just drive around randomly in search of tracks (even members of this club who have been 4wding for years dont know where a lot of the tracks are in the Watagans, being a newbie - i know even less!) and it gives 4wders a bad rep for not being considerate of public property, and the tracks that are known about, are driven into oblivion and then closed.

I've been looking around at the other states 4wd association websites to see what services they offer their members and the victorian association seems to be one that the others should be taking their cues from.

The VIC association site has track maps, directions with GP co-ords and reports and notes on conditions/temp closures - that are up to date - and available for everyone (not only logged in members) to download as PDFs at http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/ (look under "track information")

This is the kind of information that I think NSW (and other states too) 4wders need to have made available to them. The NSW 4wd assoc seems a little preoccupied with promoting itself and its clubs with posters at the moment though to start doing something like this. Are they at a different point in their lifecycle? Did VIC do all the club promotion stuff a few years ago and are now at a more advanced stage of engaging with their clubs members?

I'm not going to just have a whinge about this and expect someone else to fix it, if I can help make this kind of thing happen for NSW (and maybe replicate it for the other state bodies), then who do I talk to at the 4wd association?

What are peoples thoughts on track location information?
Should locations of tracks be easily accessible for all? Or should it be just for those "in the know" as it is now? What are the pros and cons?

Casey, I'm not sure about an actual area from any organized NSW State level to obtain information from, but I do know that Overlander magazine and their forum have had a member included downloadable (is that a word?) map and track area for years now. This is all information supplied by members of the forum themselves and it's very comprehensive for all of Australia. There is also the Overlander Club with information as well. Steve F. and I did a trip to Stockton with some of those guys once BTW... ;)

The info is out there. I'll see about approaching the NSW bunch in regards to the possibility of setting up something akin to an area for information to be obtained from.

thank chris :)

its definitely something that is only going to work if people are willing to share track locations. the people who know where the tracks are have no ownership of the tracks, just the knowledge of their location. the state forests are there for the use of everybody, its just a matter of knowing where to look and i think a lot of people just go to where they know.. and 90% of people only seem to know the same few tracks.

i can understand why people are guarded about where their favourite tracks are - they dont want them driven into oblivion and then closed. But if people knew the locations of more tracks (and their levels of difficulty), then wouldn't the use of tracks would be more evenly spread out and not driven so much that they become so eroded that they are locked off?

take zig zag for example, i saw one user on a 4wd forum (cant remember which one) complain that everyone only ever drives the same track out there, and its getting damaged as a result. if the location of the other good tracks to drive there were made more easily available, and findable when you're there, then wouldn't the use of the land would be more balance, instead of getting hammered in the same place all the time?

That brings us to that aspect of 4wding which conflicts with non-4wd road users. the more eroded tracks are the ones that are the more challenging and desired tracks amongst a lot of 4wders. how is that managed?

nobody wants fire trails damaged to the point that emergency service vehicles cant operate on them when there is bushfires. but at the same time no 4wder wants to drive around the bush on a nicely graded track. they want a challenge.

how can the two co-exist?
can the two co-exist?

well, so much for my idea of a new service that shows where tracks are and rates them on difficulty.. someone has already done it: http://www.4x4earth.com.au/

:P

I'm off to find some new tracks :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by casey

well, so much for my idea of a new service that shows where tracks are and rates them on difficulty.. someone has already done it: http://www.4x4earth.com.au/

:P

I'm off to find some new tracks :D

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Yep, I've been a member thre for a while but haven't seen any new tracks that we dont know about yet :(

Cheers
Steve

As sad as i am to say it this is one reason why i am selling my Jeep as half the tracks i used to drive are now closed. % years ago people were much more open about sharing where tracks were etc. In the last 5 years with so many areas locked off or shut down people are too scared to say where they drive as they don't want the councils/parks etc closing down their favourite spot. I know i haven't posted track directions on an open forum for years. While i agree with you that sharing the load would make sense and would stop huge overuse of current tracks but i just don't see people changing their new ways.

Plus i don't think that councils really care about 4wders. We arn't a loud enough voice and really they care more about being seen to be environmentally aware than giving a small group of society an area to persue their chosen recreation. Especially in these high-environment aware times.

Not trying to be negative. It is depressing though isn't it.

it can be a bit depressing hearing about closures, especially in areas that are really popular with local jeep drivers like watagans.

i've been looking through the 4wd assoc forum, and was glad to see that they are responding to this watagans closure (they've been working on it for a while). I have been a subscriber to their updates for a while now and hadn't heard anything about this until I saw a post about it on AJOR today. I think the 4wd assoc needs to be a bit more vocal in promoting the issues that they are working on on behalf of the 4wd community. at the moment they rely on people logging into their forum - which took me quite a few attempts to log into today.

there are some sections on their site about access to certain areas; menai, dingo dell and spanish steps - all areas that are heavily monitored. they dont mention any "regular" tracks like the ones that are planned on being closed in the watagans.

the association appears to collect documentation on trips by clubs to all the national parks and state forests that lodge trip reports with them, so they know where people are driving to track land usage so that when there are cases of track closures they have data to back up the 4wders case for access rights ..but they dont share this collective information back to members as far as i can tell from looking around their site.

if they shared this information about where is good to drive back to clubs then wouldn't this increase the usage data that they are collecting? furthering the associations case for access rights whenever there are track closures?

one thing is for sure - whoever maintains those trip report submissions knows where all the good places are! ;)

The 4wd assocation is putting together a formal reply to the Wattagans proposal. It is going to close a lot of the connecting loop roads. They also asked clubs and members to submit responses. The proposal has been up on the assoc website for some time now.

It took over 550 responses to the recent proposed snowchains legislation for it to be placed in the to hard pile.

The assoc is working hard to bring national parks around in their thinking that 4wd's should be kept out. It is slowly starting to work there was a recent new park declared up north where 4wding was declared a valid recreational area and 4wd tracks remained opened.

They are also getting invited to comment before the draft proposals are even submitted for review now which is a major plus - Mt Airley is an example of this where they orginally wanted to close the gates at Cole's place but now are looking at some areas to make as camping spots.

In the last month several clubs have been up the wattagans, yet only one official trip report has been submitted to the assocation...this does not help in preparing proposals

Really the association is only as good as it's members and it needs its members to be more proactive in keeping tracks open

Heidi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heidi

The 4wd assocation is putting together a formal reply to the Wattagans proposal. It is going to close a lot of the connecting loop roads. They also asked clubs and members to submit responses. The proposal has been up on the assoc website for some time now.

It took over 550 responses to the recent proposed snowchains legislation for it to be placed in the to hard pile.

The assoc is working hard to bring national parks around in their thinking that 4wd's should be kept out. It is slowly starting to work there was a recent new park declared up north where 4wding was declared a valid recreational area and 4wd tracks remained opened.

They are also getting invited to comment before the draft proposals are even submitted for review now which is a major plus - Mt Airley is an example of this where they orginally wanted to close the gates at Cole's place but now are looking at some areas to make as camping spots.

In the last month several clubs have been up the wattagans, yet only one official trip report has been submitted to the assocation...this does not help in preparing proposals

Really the association is only as good as it's members and it needs its members to be more proactive in keeping tracks open

Heidi

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Heidi

It is great that you have posted here and some great information you have provided but here is some food for thought of the association

1. Stop with the woe are us the clubs dont provide trip reports rubish. If the association were seen by the clubs and its members in having a real impact an a true voice with the government then maybe you would get more support I know it feels hard to do something an not feel the support but just like business support follows success.
2. Other associations both globally and in Australia have had much wider success yet in my 9+ years of being involved with SJC not once as the association shared any plans they have to draw upon these best practises and having a true holistic approach to working with the government on track managment but rather calls for reactive help when it is almost too late.
3. No one thinks this is easy but requires a united view the association is the only point that has a united voice of the clubs so we require your leadership in helping the clubs and adding value so that none of the clubs react in a way that has a negative impact on the broader picture and the success that has been had

In the US the equivlent 4wd associations are acitivly promoting 4wders as environmentalist who want to get out an enjoy the bush we all know this is the case but the Australian public does not