http://www.youtube.com/user/3DHunty?feature=mhw4
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The biggest mistake I see from JK drivers without lockers is they back off before the traction control has a chance to start working. With lockers or open diffs you're always aware of their presence, and that doesn't change dynamically.
Once you learn to drive in harmony with the T/C though, the fact that it doesn't require flicking on and off manually everytime you get stuck like a manual locker, doesn't affect behaviour on the road like an auto locker, and doesn't wear out like a conventional LSD, the JK traction control is a very good thing!
Totally agree Scott. And the video is a great example of good wheel placement and patient driving for the terrain. Also I believe that pre-TC driving techniques often influence 'opinions' offered to people driving TC equipped vehicles,
whilst i agree that the JK traction control system works very well...i still dont think there is any substitue for lockers....
I agree with your analysis 100% - however it is quite hard initially to get used to accelerating slightly when traction starts to decrease!Quote:
Originally Posted by sbadman
I went on the run last weekend just to film some hard core guyz with crawler gears and lockers - I was'nt planning to attempt the rut as I was 1.being a wimp 2. didn't want to scratch my car (as did all the others b4 me) 3. didnt want to embarrass myself by getting stuck - anyway they talked me into it (I suspect just so they could laugh,point and post videos of me being winched on Youtube) and to my surprise the jeep was the only car to make it up without stopping!!! - the locked crawler gear Isuzu took 30min to negotiate the rut the cruiser needed to be winched and the nissans needed to stop and backup etc - ill post a link soon to the youtube vids of the other 4x4s attempting the rut - so all you jeep lovers out there can see just how capable the JK is - cheers Hunty
I’ve only had my JK a few months and I was relying on my lockers all the time but on the last Menai trip Stephen T caught me out and told me to try keeping them off and to only use them as a least resort if I got stuck. He suggested (insisted) that I learn to trust and use my traction control so I could slow down, pick my line more easily and walk over the obstacles rather than go blasting up the climbs all locked up relying engine power and momentum.
At the last Newnes trip Stephen T (and everyone else) kept hassling me over the radio to keep my lockers off so I did and was stunned at how easily the JK climbed over even the most rutted out climb. I could keep my speed down and avoid getting any suspension bounce as I "walked" it up. When I needed more power I just eased it on, never loosing traction once. I didn't use my lockers all day and was left wondering when they are really necessary.
I did my driver training with the TLCC the weekend after Newnes and all the instructors commented that I was obviously more experienced than the “new” drivers and encouraged me to put my name down for the next advanced driver training course. Of course I wasn’t that much better than anyone else there, the JK just made me look like I was.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my lockers but by not using them all the time I’m learning to be a much better driver. The Traction Control is there so you should learn how to use it with the lockers off. Besides the car doesn’t turn well (hard to avoid big rocks and trees) and the load on all the running gear is increased dramatically with the lockers on so it makes sense to only use them when you absolutely need them. And of course it’s always a good idea to leave another gun in the arsenal for when the tracks get really rough.
i rarely use the lockers. the traction control does a prety good job on its own.
but then again, i've hardly used the jeep at all the last few months. :(
hoping to change that over summer :)
Hi Casey - do you have a rubicon or did you get the lockers fitted? if so - where and approx how much???? - cheers HuntyQuote:
Originally Posted by casey
got a rubicon.
We managed to get a near stock GU up there yesterday - no lockers, bald all terrains!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEGxNEPQUs0
If you have a Rubicon or an aftermarket locker-fit, either way you pay a lot for lockers. The TC works great and is fantastic in a unit like a Jeep. But fact is, you simply cannot beat lockers. You dont need them all the time, but you only need to have to use them that ONE time when you really do to make them pay. And sometimes just the rear locker is enough to give you that little 'edge'.
Lockers are invaluable if you do any Lone Ranger rides, which I do, most of my driving.
Doesn't mean you still wont get bogged, slide away in a climb or come guts up in a descent, then if you do, well nothing can save you anyway. Lockers in reserve - thats when you fully appreciate them and the cost is worth it.
CRB
Ive experienced first generation traction control in the Defender 90 I used to have.
It does work best on low traction loose terrain or slippery stuff.
It is a reactive system which can sometimes mean by the time TC kicks in it is too late.
There are some situations like climbing rock steps where a pre-emptive system( ie: you flick your lockers on, before the obstacle) is the go.
Heres a link to my D90 in action on the top track going up to the summit of Mt Walker
Its slo-mo so you can see the TC quite well. (Didn't drive it too well actually got a bit close to a tree :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_bcQjMFnk
Hey Dave, your'e not as good as Ash at hitting trees......BTW, if you dont want that 90 anymore can I have it for Christmas?
CRB
Almost nothing a big right boot doesn't fix. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CRB
In a way Hunty your lucky you have a manual and you get to choose which way you want to go, with the auto box when I engage low range it automatically turns the traction control off and I cant re-engage it so I did want you are thinking of and put in an ARB Rear locker, didn’t get front at the time because the guys at St Peters ARB said every Wrangler with a D30 front axle has been damaged not long after placing a front locker in without drive shaft &/or axle modifications and at the time I didn’t really want to go down that path so went rear only and I have to say without a doubt the best $1200 Ive ever spent... Better then 35 inch Mickey T's, better then a long range tank to get high flow.
The locker is fantastic:o you either engage before hand if you think its looks dicey or wait till you’re in struggle town (granted in a Jeep not often) push the button and off you go...
I so impressed Im upgrading the front axle to a D44 with a 1350 drive shaft just to get a front one and if that makes me a lazy 4WDer Im fine with that, I'll wait for everyone up the top ;D
IMHO and everyone is different and whats different things...
Maaaaaaaaate
I am very jealous - I read your appreciation of the rear locker and NOW I WANT !
I am shocked - your post says that in Low range you have no traction control - are my eyes deceiving me? or is the Auto that special - I rely heavily on my traction control - for me it counts as having almost 1 locker - LoL
The price you paid for the locker - is that it $1200.00 @ St Peters ARB
cheers Hunty
Hi Guyz
I just noticed the youtube link was dead -so i have posted a new video and linked it again - I hope LoL.
anyway I will post it here as well - sorry its not in slow mo - My beautiful wife shot this 1 for me on her iPhone - it shows just useful traction control can be ! - and yes I wish I had lockers!!!!!!! - enjoy - cheers Hunty
Low range on all JKs will turn off ESP.
The system has three settings: On, Partial On, and Off. The settings that are available to the driver are dependent upon what position the transfer-case shifter is in.
2HI offers On and Partial On (by pressing the "ESP OFF" switch);
4HI offers On, Partial On (by pressing the "ESP OFF" switch), and Off below 40 mph (by pressing and holding down the "ESP OFF" switch until it says ESP OFF on the LCD in dash);
4LO only offers Off (this is automatically set when you go into 4LO).
Dont confuse ESP with BLD.
ESP enhances directional control and stability of the Jeep. It corrects for over- and understeering conditions using brake actuation and reduction of throttle to help the Jeep maintain a desired path.
BLD (Brake Lock Differential) apply braking force to an axle's spinning wheel in order to provide an equal amount of torque to each wheel and deliver greater traction for rock-crawling over severe off-road terrain.
BLD is designed for off-road operation and automatically activates when driving in 4 Low.
You can read more about BLD from Jeep engineers on the Chrysler blog: http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270
Thanks Casey for explaining the difference. You must be a Jeep fanatic to research all the info.
Mani
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunty
Yep $1200 installed and at the time they gave you a free air compressor which is the larger one for tyres as well...
Casey - I maybe getting the traction control confused with ESP when I engage 4L the light on the dash comes up saying 'No ESP' (basically) and I naturally assumed that would also disengage traction control as well... I must say though I had my Jeep about 10 months before a locker and while it was very capable I never noticed the traction control at all in fact the whole reason I invested in a locker was attempting what I now call 'Locker Hill' up near Mt Walker when trying to get up an unreal rock self cliff and I got half way and just couldn’t get the traction I needed so winched out, went to ARB got the locker, went back the following weekend and got all the way...
As I said best $1200 Ive ever spent...
when you start to slip or lose traction in a JK, you gotta floor it. Thats what makes it work the best, locked, loaded, low range, add TC, done - or rolled. So big deal.
Casey
Confused is ESP traction control? I have a v6 four door manual and do not rate 4 hi with ESP as am always stalling
ESP is not traction control but a stability control system. The system uses a computer which monitors and calculates various things such as the steering angle and/or comparing the speed of the individual wheels with each other and a bunch of other associated stuff to determine if the car is acting in an uncontrolled manner or not. If it decides that it isn’t it will activates the brakes the brakes independently to bring the car back under driver control. It is a great active safety measure that is fitted to most cars now days but unfortunately the Jeep system sometimes decides to lend a helping hand when it isn’t necessary which causes the dreaded “death wobbles” that you may have heard about. An overactive ESP system in combination with the ABS and Traction Control can also have a spectacularly disastrous affect when driving on sand too. Try searching for “burning JK at Stockton” on Google.
The ESP system is primarily intended for road use and switches off automatically in low range as the driving inputs while 4WDing over rough terrain may cause the system to activate when it isn’t required. Many drivers are not satisfied with this and want to disable the ESP system in high range as well. There are a number of ways to do this which I won’t attempt to describe now, try searching “ESP disable” on our club site and Google.
The ESP, ABS, Traction Control and other electronic driver assistance systems are all controlled by the same computer and are similar but different, it is all well described in your manual and on the net if you search for it.
tony im pretty sure that the esp doenst have anything to do with the death wobbles.... dw are 99.9% of the time caused by worn components or incorrect settings (caster)
also im pretty sure that the esp only switches off in low range with the rubi, im sure someone will correct me if im wrong but in the non rubi models the esp remains on to some degree... hence alot of people feel there is no need for lockers when the jk system works so well... and it does....
So being a non JK owner/driver, I am reading that the ESP turns off in L4wd or partially as may be or not, but the Traction control ( drive to wheels, not braking as in ESP function ) remains on in L4wd......... Two totally seperate programme's/functions linked to the same Jeep computor..............
From what I have seen from outside is that most JK drivers are not aware they have T/C or how it works for them in most off road situations. Learning to use it & trust it's capacities is the hard thing. It amaze's me everytime I see one straight from the box so to speak perform so well. I think every driver takes a little time to adjust and catch up to the Jeep abilities..:)......... Even the non- rubi models.....:)....
i thin your right steve.. i was getting confused between esp and t/c
Jeep Brake Traction Control Explained
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270
Braked Locked Diff (aka Traction Control) does work to some degree but it does require a different way of driving to get the best from it. You need to put your foot into the throttle (or go to the peak in the torque band) when you start to lose traction (sort of counter intuitive) but this causes more torque to be applied to the wheel with grip. The ABS sensors see the spinning wheel and apply the brakes to that wheel (in a pulsating fashion), this distributes more torque to the other wheel. BLD is not turned off when you disable ESP, or put it into low range, it is always there. In my opinion CRDs benefit the most from BLD because they have more torque to utilise, but having said that they are not a substitute for a locker but a reasonable compromise for those that dont' have one.
Cheers
Glen
Thought I would bump Casey's post up regarding ESP,BLD etc...:)......:).Quote:
Originally Posted by casey